Chief Magazine: Did you grow up in a small town?
Max Ryazansky: I was born in Vilnius, Lithuania, where I lived till I was 6 when my parents decided to head for the Promised Land: New Jersey. Once there, we settled on a place which used to be called Turkey Town. The name changed, and the population grew to something like 11,000.
Could you see yourself being happy living in a small town? Does there seem to be much of an upside to small-town life?
I love small towns, and can definitely see myself moving to one at some point down the road, but it has to be relatively close to a city too. I can't get caught in a Wal-Mart trap. Ideally, my life will be like "The Wild, The Innocent, and The E Street Shuffle."
I guess you can’t take New Jersey out of the boy. What were your first experiences with photography as a kid? What made you realize that photography was something that you wanted to pursue?
Basically, I was a kid in the suburbs skateboarding after school and going to punk shows on the weekends. I know it's a familiar story, and there really isn't any part in mine that makes it more interesting than anyone else's. I took a photo class in high school, and started taking pictures at shows of the bands I was going to see. My teacher was this awesome guy, Bill Vivona, and he was telling me that all the best shots of musicians were of them not actually playing, which I didn't really get for many years after. When it was time to pick what I wanted to do in college, I just went with photography 'cause, like most kids in my situation, I didn't want to be some sellout corporate idiot behind a desk, and I actually enjoyed doing it. That was 2001; here I am now.
What artists or photographers were your favorites growing up? Where have you taken influence from?
Growing up, I was pretty ignorant to photographers I now consider influences. I knew Glen E. Friedman and Richard Avedon, and I'm sure a handful of others who fell closer in line with fine photography. I just wanted to walk around with a camera and take some photos of whatever I thought looked interesting. Once I started to get more specific ideas of what I wanted to shoot, I discovered artists such as Bill Owens and Mary Ellen Mark, who I now consider to be my two biggest influences.
Had you experienced much hatred growing up? How certain were you that you would still be able to find some of these hate-filled people nowadays?
When I
first came to America,
I went to this Hebrew school where they were trying to teach me English and
Hebrew simultaneously, which was really good for fucking up my whole world. I'm
trying to learn the alphabet and how to count to 20 with a dreidel in one hand
and a piece of matzoh in the other and you got these little runts like David
talking shit to me in one of two languages I don't understand. Anyway, David hit me
over the shin with a plastic nunchuck and it cracked in half. Fortunately,
there was a language aside from Russian which I was fully aware of: violence.
This is when I was seven - my life's been pretty good ever since. No
complaints, really; I'm more offended by how many stupid people there are in
this world than what they really have to say.
What do you think is at the root of your fascination with clown parades and other facets of small-town life, and even your fascination with bigotry?
As Americans we are granted life, liberty, and by no coincidence the name of one of my photo series: the pursuit of happiness. Whether you choose to do this by part taking in a clown parade, going to a car convention, lighting some crosses on fire ("it's lighting a cross 'cause it evokes the spirit of Jesus - the word burning has a negative connotation" - imperial wizard Ray Larsen), or getting down with some good old fashioned religious gay-bashing, that is your right and I just want to document it. Besides, hatred can be really funny sometimes - you ever see that HBO special with Bill Riccio where they give him a birthday cake with an icing swastika? That shit is genius, man - you can't make that up. I mean, are you really trying to tell me that if you went to the Resistance Records message board and saw such topics of discussion as "Dave Chapelle: funny or just a dumb nigger?"; "I saw this guy I thought was Mexican hitting on my sister at the mall so I beat him up, but it turned out he was just a really tan white guy...oops"; and other classics such as "The Holocaust never happened"--you wouldn't laugh at how outrageously ignorant that is? It's tragically sad how these people's minds work, and some people might think that laughing at it is just as bad, but I guess I am just obsessed with comical ignorance even when it's aimed at me. Mel Brooks made a whole career out of this.
One of my favorite anomalies in your work is the photo with the sweetly-smiling little girl in her "Vote for Pedro" T-shirt, standing in protest next to the sign that says, "God Hates Fags." What are some of the things that surprise you when you're out photographing people?
Honestly, I get more excited than surprised when I go out to take pictures. When I see somebody or something going on that I feel is really interesting and I am able to take a picture of it, that's what I get excited about.
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How do you think some of these young kids will turn out, like the Napoleon Dynamite fan and the girls whose grandparents are teaching them to use firearms? Do you get to talk the children much?
It's hard to tell, and I am probably in no position to really give a valid opinion about this, but a lot of the kids in the photos seem to live your All-American, apple pie lives. To one family, it's totally normal to shoot guns by the time you're in middle school; to another, it's the craziest idea of all time. I hadn't shot a gun till I was 20-something at the event I went to document, and I have friends that had been doing it since they were young, and we all seemed to turn out alright. As far as parents raising their kids in these conditions where they are imposing their ideas of hate or superiority, personally I think it's wrong, but they can teach their kids whatever they want. When the kids turn 18, they will hopefully be smart enough to at least question what they stand for and figure out where they want their life to go. Too many people try to put emphasis on morality and not constitutional rights for how people should interact or raise their kids.
Do you have any creepy stories about spending time with Imperial Wizard of the KKK?
Not so much creepy as they were funny. I think my favorite was when he was telling me about the modern ills of race mixing. He asked me to imagine this scenario and painted a beautiful picture to go along with it - "now, say you are eating vanilla ice cream, right? And then I come along (pause) and put some cow shit in it. Would you eat that ice cream?" I thought about this for a second and gave him my honest answer of "No, I would not eat that ice cream." Granted race issues are a little more complicated than a yes or no response to a theoretical food and feces combination, but I could almost see how to someone of that mind frame it could kind of almost kind of make sense. Also, when I was taking a piss in the port-a-john they had set up, the grandkid who was about 14 ran at it full speed and forced me to urinate all over myself. I was kind of glad that, all racial tension and the fact that I was from Jew York City aside, that we could still relate on the common bond that holds all mankind together: physical comedy involving bodily fluids.
That's true - peeing on yourself is funny, no matter where you're from. Do you ever feel that photographing people like the Imperial Wizard is giving them attention for the wrong reasons, or somehow putting a spotlight on their cause?
This is something I get asked a lot, and I think what a lot of people don't understand is that there is a difference between documenting and glorifying. A spotlight can be a good thing as long as it makes people think. I give all my subjects the same type of attention and shoot them all in the same style, whether they are hanging out at the boardwalk or part of a registered hate group. Documentations need outside sources to make them less biased. I think a lot of the people that think any attention is bad attention just want to put a lot of this subject matter in the back of their minds and either pretend it doesn't exist or simply write it off as unimportant. The same photo can evoke opposite feelings from different people and the only thing that I don't like is when people try to accuse me of being a supporter of something just because I took the photo.
I read a review of your work and about how staying neutral can be tough but important for a photographer of the kind of subject matter that you seek out. Do you find it a challenge to stay neutral --or even to take some of the people seriously--when confronted with such volatile subject matter?
I honestly take all the people I shoot seriously. I don't want to exploit or make fun of anyone, even if I 100% disagree with something they believe in. They have a right to believe what they do, and they let me document it. Sometimes people might not see the reason of why I would want take a picture of something and that all stems from different interests, what we are used to, senses of humor, and a hundred other things thrown into the equation, but I feel like, if I started putting evil lighting and shooting from unflattering angles all the people I disagreed with, it would just become way less serious and more about what I think rather than what is really happening. Sometimes funny things happen, like these quotes I gave you from the Imperial Wizard or a woman getting her pig to chug beer, and you just have to roll with it. I think anyone who understands my sense of humor can see a touch of it in the photos, but it's never malicious.
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Do you go on road trips with specific photographic goals in mind, or are some of the settings, say Indiana or New Jersey, just chosen because you know people who live there? How much research goes into choosing these locales beforehand?
The whole Pursuit of Happiness series is very specific. Granted, sometimes I get a little too caught up in what I think the photos are going to be and they come out totally different, but I choose the locations and events ahead of time and see what happens. The other series I have, Forever Outsiders, is way more random and about traveling with a band and just seeing what I can come across that interests me. Sometimes I'll see something totally random, like a woman with a "Nuke Iraq" tire cover on her Jeep, and it's better than anything I could have really sought out.
Did you know that you would encounter a white supremacist Santa? And what kinds of gifts did he have to offer?
Imperial Wizard Ray Larsen told me that Ku Klux Klaus would be at the function, and that was one of the biggest reasons I went, but what presents he had was left to my imagination because I wasn't allowed to interact with or photograph the kids in anyway. Resistance Records sells white power first-person shoot-'em-up games, so maybe that was in a stocking stuffer. I really don't know, though.
Which piece of yours are you most satisfied with?
I really like the one you were talking about earlier, of Ashley from the Westboro Baptist Church wearing a Napoleon Dynamite shirt while standing on an American flag and text-messaging. You really can't make this stuff up. It's the sort of thing that, if I were doing an editorial photo, and I started saying, "OK, OK, let's have her text-messaging while standing on the flag... and then let's have her wearing a Napoleon Dynamite shirt," the photo editor would tell me that I am out of my mind and way over the top.
What are the themes of the photos that are on display at the "Tiny Vices" exhibition? How has your recent work differed from earlier photos of yours?
The photos on Tiny Vices are from my POH series. I didn't shoot anything specific for it - I just gave Tim some of my photos to choose from. The only real difference I see in my recent work is that I took a job with my friends' band touring practically non stop, so I couldn't work on POH, and I started doing the FO series just so I could keep shooting things that interested me. The subject matter might not be as smart, but a lot of the photos can really be in POH. I could probably narrow down the whole FO series to a small handful of photos and just stick them in with POH.
Do you still have plans to compile a book of your photos?
This is honestly my next big goal. I am going to put together a real short-run DIY artist book and see if I can get someone interested in putting out a real edition. Without sounding too corny, if I have a book come out, I can die saying that I didn't fail as an artist.
That doesn’t sound too corny. So who are some of your favorite under-the-radar artists right now?
I've been pretty out of touch with what's been going on really recently, just because I've been on the road the last four out of five months, but the last things I saw that I really liked were Brad Troemel's series about the Insane Clown Posse's Dark Carnival, and Boogie just put up some photos from his Skinhead series that weren't on display before. I'm excited to check that out. Everyone should also look up Robert "Bink" Ryan, Dennis McNett, and Sioux City Pete and the Beggars.
How does shooting photos of people in their neighborhoods compare to magazine and press shoots? Does one feel less authentic than the other?
I like shooting people in their environments when I have more control of what the photo is going to be used for and about. I mean, I'll gladly shoot anyone, as long as they want to pay me and give me at least some creative freedom over it.
What exactly is your role with the band that you mentioned earlier, Modern Life is War, and how did you get involved with the band? Were you just a fan of theirs, or have you known the guys for a while?
I've
known them since their first tour in 2002 when I booked a show for them. I
guess I was a promoter-turned-fan-turned-friend. I was their merch guy /
minister of entertainment, but I'm not sure what's going on with that right
now. They work real hard and tour nonstop to barely make ends meet as a band,
and what they were paying me to do what I did wasn't a lot, it was still taking
a significant cut of what they were getting. So, I am back at home now--we'll
see what happens.
How was it that a shot that you took of them ended up in Revolver, or had you done a bunch of promo shots for the band? Would you be interested in doing shoots for random bands that you aren't personally invested in?
Revolver was doing a story about them and wanted an exclusive band shot. The one we gave them originally had this homeless guy Ken, who we met in a parking lot in California, Photoshopped into the background. He was a real character who drank some beers with us and sang us a song about getting crabs and had a great tweaker stare, so we Photoshopped him in there, but I guess it wasn't serious enough for Revolver or something, I dunno. They just went straight to the label and got a different photo I took. [Laughs]
What motivated the decision to shoot a video for every song on the album, and is there some kind of conceptual link amongst the various videos - will they tell a bigger story altogether?
This was a really cool idea that the singer, Jeff, and I came up with one day when he was driving me to the Minneapolis airport from their hometown in Iowa. The whole theme of Midnight in America is really interesting and kind of dark and evil without really trying to be. It's kind of telling you about how fucked the world is and what you can make of yourself and if that will even matter to anyone. So, we wanted to make a video for every song on the record to really put a visual twist on the theme, but it isn't happening now for many reasons. I wish we could do it, but with them on the road for like 9 months out of a year, and being spread out between Iowa, New Jersey, and Holland, and with me in NY - that's definitely one of the many big reasons.
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Do you see yourself working on videos for other bands in the future, or are you interested in other kinds of filmmaking?
I want to make some short documentary videos in the theme of POH. I am going to start shooting a video to document NYC street preachers. Not too sure what it will turn into, but I'm hoping to make a short 5 to 10-minute one to start out with. I'd love to do some music videos, but now that I am back, I am more in the documentary mind frame.
You're still pretty young--are you able to hold down a day job, especially given that you're on the road with the band at times?
I work as an independent contractor for a media and marketing company, which basically means, whenever I call them and ask for work, they'll give it to me, as long as they got it available. It really sounds a lot fancier than it is--I mostly drive a truck around and pass out samples of new products, but it pays well, and my bosses are all really cool.
That doesn't sound too bad. What's the worst job you've ever had?
Probably baby sitting these two siblings. The boy ran around with his penis between his legs screaming that he would tell his mom I raped him.
Wow. That guy's a jerk.
I finally had enough when the older sister started spitting on me and saying I won't quit 'cause I wouldn't be able to get a better job. These kids were in 3rd and 6th grade, I believe.
What's on the horizon? Any plans for the rest of the year?
There
is a profile on me and the whole FO series in Punk Rock Confidential, which I am pretty excited for 'cause it's
just a hilarious magazine with great distribution. I'll also be sending out my
CD and portfolio, trying to get more stuff published and in more shows.
Turn
25. Try to get a makeover on Tyra.
If anyone can help you to become a better you, it's Tyra. Do you get much downtime when you're on tour? What do you try to make time to do when you have free time on the road?
We play a lot of
blackjack. It's a good way to kill time in the van and win/lose a ton of money.
If I'm really trying to chill and get away from everything, I would take the
crack head bike (we got it from a crack head for $3 in Baltimore at a Chinese restaurant) and go on
a ride. It's a great way to see some of our unknown national treasures such as Sioux City, South
Dakota (awesome combination of football jocks and
dudes straight out of jail).
Website
www.maximryazansky.com
Interview: Ryan Gajewski
Portraits: Todd Fisher